Cura Alpha 🎄 Tree Support Spotlight 🎄

[MariMakes]

Are you a fan of tree support, but dislike the removal process and the amount of filament it uses? Then we would like to invite you to try this special release of UltiMaker Cura. Brought to you by our special community contributor @ThomasRahm

We generated a special version of Cura 5.2 called 5.3.0 Alpha + Xmas. The only changes we introduced compared to UltiMaker Cura 5.2.1 are those which are needed for the new supports. So keep in mind, this is not a sneak peek for Cura 5.3 (there are some really cool new features coming up) but a spotlight release highlighting this new version of tree supports.

New tree support implementation

These new tree supports use significantly less filament than our current version of tree supports. Where our current tree supports have a tendency to merge multiple branches into one larger branch to limit the amount of retraction, these trees have a different shape and have smaller branches that are able to reach tricky corners. With less filament extruded, you’ll also see a significant decrease in printing time.

How can you start testing?

You can try out these new tree supports today.

1. Download UltiMaker Cura 5.3.0-Alpha-Xmas
   
2. Run some tests with prints that you are familiar with. We’ve enabled tree supports by default for testing purposes.
3. Share any feedback or bugs here in the discussion

Notes to keep in mind when you start testing

The following settings have been introduced:

• Tree Support Preferred Branch Angle
• Tree Support Maximum Branch Angle
• Tree Support Diameter Increase to Model
• Tree Support Minimum Height To Model
• Tree Support Initial Layer Diameter
• Support Interface Priority
• Tree Support Limit Branch Reach
• Tree Support Optimal Branch Range
• Tree Support Rest Preference

You can learn more about what the settings do in Thomas' original Pull Request.

Known Issues

• Engine crashes– Often if you try to rotate the model or move it away from the center it's resolved. If this doesn't resolve your issue we would love to get your project file to learn what's wrong
• Floating islands inside of support
• Adaptive Layerheights are not always working correctly
• Support Interface are not always working corretly

Please note

Due to the holiday season, responses from UltiMaker might be slower than usual. Please remember that this UltiMaker Cura alpha is not suitable for ‘normal’ use. It should be only used for testing. There is a higher chance that you may run into one or more bugs (some known, some unknown). These might reduce print quality. For example, keep in mind that we cannot guarantee that profiles get migrated over to UltiMaker Cura 5.3 stable correctly. So be sure to save them before upgrading.

A HUGE thank you to anyone who contributes to this alpha test and don’t forget to give Thomas some love for the incredible work he has done to improve UltiMaker Cura.

[HermanGaviriaMarin]

This is certainly very impressive. These supports look much more clean. I will be testing how easy they are to remove. For now enjoy some of these comparison images.

I really wonder how this stacks up against the organic supports Prusa Slicer is teasing, from what Lost in Tech said, these are the same or very similar.

[walterlootk]

I tried moving my print off-center but it produced this error, when I click on preview. Hope this test helps.

This is not a water-tight model as per Cura (yet), if it helps.

[DerGenaue]

That looks like it's not related to the new Tree Support...
The only issue remotely related to this that I could find is: #8444
You should probably open a new ticket where you also upload your model and settings so the devs can investigate this issue

[dabolu]

Hello, im really impressed from the performance of supporting print . good job !

i just have an issue for now with octoprint plugin i guess .
if need, i use : Octoprint connection 3.7.2
the error is "[red circle with white cross in] error, Object of type SettingFunction is not JSON serializable"
it appear when i clic on "Print with OctoPrint" blue button after slicing
no problem to export file and print it directly. this project is actually printing without problem.
here is a screenshot.
i guess its not your priority, but its the only thing i see for now.

thanks you for your work, i really appreciate it and i'm impressed to see what you can enhance for 3d print. at moment i thing we got end improve it, you prove me i have wrong again !

[MariMakes]

Hey @dabolu,

Thanks for your compliments 😄

We are aware of SettingFunction is not JSON serializable 👍
It's been reported here: #13675
Some work has been done on it last week, and we are testing possible solutions for this.

[jellespijker]

the fix for it should be in the actual 5.3.0 release. This one is still based on the 5.2.1 release with the addition of the tree support PR

[Zephyrus67]

Just some info.

These new settings never showed up in my installation of this alpha before I went in and added them by myself in the setting visibility window.

I dont know if it is supposed to work like this now since this alpha is entirely about these.

(It might confuse a few people)

[MariMakes]

Hey @Zephyrus67,

Good find! Thanks for pointing it out.
According to this line they should show up in expert mode, but that one does not show up for me.
They do show up when you select all.

I'll bring it up to the team!

[DerGenaue]

maybe it's because there still is a duplicate support_type in the expert.cfg..?

[MariMakes]

Good spot @DerGenaue, I actually spotted 3 duplicates.
Should be resolved here: 5dfd0fd

Thanks for your report 👍

[MarcusBecker-GitHub]

Great work!

I did notice one potential issue; in one print there is a cave with a narrow entry, and it seems as if the supports enter the cave and then expand. Ultimately, this would cause supports which can not easily be removed. I plan to print it nevertheless and see if I can break the branches within the cave. It also seems to me as if the branches inside the cave do connect with branches outside of the cave.

One solution could be to add break points to the branches, and maybe to not allow expansion of the branches anymore.

In case you are interested, the print is a snake skull, sliced in the orientation of the .stl file. The cave is the brain area.

[MarcusBecker-GitHub]

Positive update:
The support was much better to remove than expected! Due to the hollow branches, the support 'collapsed' during removal, and twisting + pulling removed everything.

[MariMakes]

Thanks for the update, so happy to hear!
I didn't have the nerve to actually print it but did take a stab at slicing it, it did look promising.

[Sonicboom247]

Testing this on linux Mint, This piece has always been a pain for me to print, want to test it with the new tree supports, everything looks fine and love the new tree placement, problem is, and i don't know if it is a rendering issue or if it will actually print hollow, but when i go through the layers it is just a shell with no infill. infill currently set to 20% and same issue at 100%. will try a test print to see what actually happens. If there is a nightly build i have no problem testing that as well, just point me to it.

[DerGenaue]

Did you by any chance hide the infill in the color scheme options (top center)?

[Sonicboom247]

Did you by any chance hide the infill in the color scheme options (top center)?

oh i wish it were that simple..

[DerGenaue]

ok; to properly debug this you'd need to share the print profile and the model, I guess
This Alpha doesn't have any relevant changes compared to Cura 5.2.1 besides Tree Supports, so if everything works over there this would be very weird.

[ThomasRahm]

Do you have spiralize outer contour enabled?

[Sonicboom247]

Do you have spiralize outer contour enabled?
you sir win the prize!! it was either fat fingered or who knows what but that was it. Thank you both!

[Sonicboom247]

finally able to test, sadly Cura does not like my start gcode for some odd reason.
START_PRINT EXTRUDER_TEMP=[first_layer_temperature] BED_TEMP=[first_layer_bed_temperature] AREA_START={first_layer_print_min[0]},{first_layer_print_min[1]} AREA_END={first_layer_print_max[0]},{first_layer_print_max[1]}

Mind you this is on Linux Mint using Klipper, for some reason it keeps stripping off some of the code down to
START_PRINT EXTRUDER_TEMP=[first_layer_temperature] BED_TEMP=[first_layer_bed_temperature] AREA_START={,f AREA_END={,f
The same code in Super Slicer, Cura 5.2.1 or PS works as intended.

[MariMakes]

Hey @Sonicboom247,

Thanks for the report. That's odd, thanks for checking it with other versions of the slicer.
A quick glace makes it seem that it's related to your {, but I'll bring it up to the team to see what we can do to improve it.
Fingers crossed 🤞

[Sonicboom247]

Thank you for responding, i will try a few more iterations but i do recall an issue with 5 that would dump the start gcode unless you clicked out of the start gcode box and into the end gcode box. The odd thing is the script is there is there until i slice, then it is broken and is sent to the gcode file broken, i then have to edit the file and add it back in. Hope that helps

[MariMakes]

Quick update on our side.
We might have a fix for this issue. 🎉
It's a bit hard for us to test. Can you please try it out and let us know if it resolves your issue?
You can download it here. https://github.com/Ultimaker/Cura/releases/tag/5.6.0-beta.1

[whoismob]

I have used this new cura Xmas for a week or so. today I decided to do a Godzilla so I can try to use the tree support. when i start to slice it just gets stuck to %50 and doesn't finish slicing, I have left it sitting for an hour, and still nothing.

I'm on windows 11 and I know there is some issue with not being fully compatible with win 11 but i wanted to comment for the devs.

any one have this issue and know how to fix it or get it to work?

[DerGenaue]

does the solution in issue #14133 help you?

[whoismob]

yes it did, i turned off limit branch reach.

[nwoahene]

hi all, how do you install this on chromebook?

[MariMakes]

Hey @nwoahene,

We currently don't have Cura builds for Chromebooks.
But we've had community members work together to get Cura working on Chromebooks with the Linux Installation.
You can read more about their efforts here https://community.ultimaker.com/topic/27382-cura-on-chromebook-how/#comment-28938

[nwoahene]

Hey so I got the latest cuts installed through Linux. Just trying to add this 5.3 version. Perhaps I could use the Linux app imagr I'll Google it

[YesIDont]

Alien figure that was a nightmare for me to print:

Before:

With new supports:

The print is underway, I'll add a comment once its done. Looking good for now.

[YesIDont]

The outcome:

• ease to remove supports, that can be removed mostly by hand, even inside cavities
• I had to remove some of the supports with cutters, but that mainly due to very small parts of the model that might break without precise pressure
• small change in the amount of cleanup after support I think, it's definitely major change for mid sized and big models

Video with removal of the supports:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk2asvEGP98&ab_channel=MateuszFryc
Supports that I was afraid to remove by hand went easily off with small cutters with almost no pressure.

and some photos:

[ThomasRahm]

Fyi ThomasRahm/CuraEngine#8 to add to known issues. I'm not yet sure if i want to just cull them or try to find another way.

[MariMakes]

Thanks for the heads-up!
I'll ping the developers and add it to the known issues list.

[xTremePower]

Hello,

I just tested the new tree and have something strange with a part that i need to print in this orientation

The good sides are supported perfectly, but I don't know why, no matter what pattern of support i choose in tree, the tree make totally useless support branches who finish under nothing at all,

When I change the % of density of the support, it draw like a line under nothing and always change the line direction, but never support anything

[ThomasRahm]

Can reproduce, it is some zigzag issue. I have seen the zigzag pattern doing some stuff i did not expect, but not this bad. If you select another support pattern this should not occur. Will look further into this, thank you.
Edit: Gyroid seems to have the same issue.

[xTremePower]

I just tried,

If I only change Support pattern, but support interface pattern is in zigzag (even disabled !!!) it not work and create these strange things

If you change support interface pattern (even disabled again !!) it solve the problem ! really strange

[ThomasRahm]

Cant confirm this. E.g. Triangle pattern looks like this for me:

[ThomasRahm]

I found the issue, a missing -1 causing to accidentally add the line from the beginning to the end of the zigzag output.
For the guys at UltiMaker: I created a temporary branch that includes your refactors here, in which i fixed this issue (link to the commit that fixes it), that i will merge with the tree_support_2 branch when the discussion in this PR is finished.

[DerGenaue]

FYI: this bug has now also been reported as #14302

[sneakyjoeru]

Support interface is missing, making it harder to peel off large support chunks that are hard to reach. I like the new version's path making, but support interface is crucial for me.

[sneakyjoeru]

Hey, thanks, looks like it helped. 0 to 0.03 worked fine.

[DerGenaue]

Just to ask: Why do you prefer support interface here?
For individual tips, the branch tips directly usually work really well and are easy to pull off.
Only for larger areas Support Interface starts making sense and improving the quality.
This is why the Minimum Support Roof Area usually is very useful
Is your experience on this different?

[sneakyjoeru]

It allows peeling a big chunk of support without having to clean up after it. I realized that minis break way less if I use support interface after some testings, so I started using it excessively. The added mass allows to peel the whole chunk of support with one motion because it carries itself and can't tear down.

Individual teeth filled on top don't make a difference for me, but with multiple teeth combined into a line or surface - the difference is huge.

[MariMakes]

🎉 Just wanted to hop in to say: ""I'm loving the troubleshooting here" ❤️

[sneakyjoeru]

🎉 Just wanted to hop in to say: ""I'm loving the troubleshooting here" ❤️

Hey man, thanks for the update. Love how sleek the trees look, but sometimes they're too horizonrtally-oriented and there may be gaps in outer walls, but doesn't seem to affect quality.
Do you think it would be possible to make some adjustments to combine several small spikes into a line for simpler separation if they are situated close to each other? Also, with the model I was printing, with your supports because of how they decided to support almost the same point from 2 sides instead of 1 side as the old supports did, I broke the thin axe handle while detaching supports on your algorithm print.

[dany-gif]

El nuevo algoritmo de soporte no llega a identificar los voladizos más pequeños a comparación de un soporte normal, si ahorra material pero la falta por identificar los boladizos más minúsculos

[DerGenaue]

Compruebe la configuración Minimum Support Area (Área del soporte mínima), ya que no se generarán soportes para áreas menores.
El nuevo algoritmo respeta este parámetro mejor que el antiguo.

[rachael7]

Did the 5.3.0-Alpha supports make it into the 5.2.2 release? I'm a little unsure which version I should be using right now. The 5.3.0 supports are really useful for me and I don't want to give them up if 5.2.2 doesn't have them. Thanks!

[DerGenaue]

Nope.
They'll probably be in the official 5.3 or maybe 5.4

[MariMakes]

Hey @rachael7,

@DerGenaue is correct.
The 5.2.2 ONLY includes the new UltiMaker S7 printer.
If you are unsure you can pull up the release notes by clicking:
Help | What's New | Next

[rachael7]

Thanks, Mari. I always check the release notes and 5.2.2 listed 4 other changes, besides the S7 introduction, that are applicable to my S5 printer:

Improved Initial Layer settings for UltiMaker S7, S5, and S3 printers
Disabled Support Towers for UltiMaker S7, S5, and S3 printers
Cleaned up material profiles, by removing duplicate setting segments, and unused elements
Updated preferred quality type for all UltiMaker 3D printers

That was enough to make me want the upgrade, but I'm bummed to give up the tree support improvements from the xmas beta. Looks like I'll be keeping both on my computer for a while.

[modrows1]

New Tree + Custom Support Cylinders Addon = TREE Supports starting mid-air where the two interact, when density is set to zero (common for tree supports). When using tree support internal density, the floating support is similar to how infill supports internally.

Prior versions of Cura combined the two correctly with zero support density

EDIT: Updating the addon has not changed anythying.

[MariMakes]

Hey @modrows1,

Thanks for your report 👍
This seems to be a duplicate of #12326
We have a ticket on our backlog with the intent to improve this behavior.

We are collecting test cases to see if our fix resolves the issue.
Would you happen to have a project file for us? It contains the printer and settings we need for troubleshooting.
To save a project file go to File -> Save project. Please make sure to .zip your project file. For big files, you may need to use WeTransfer or similar file-sharing sites.

You'll need to open Github in your browser to attach any files to your ticket
You can click the view it on GitHub link at the bottom of your email to open GitHub in the browser.

[MartinJSa]

Hi, firstly thanks for this special release, I love the new tree supports 👍

I've had this issue which appears to be supports in the middle holding up thin air? I think is different to #12326 as the supports seem to be correctly attached to the base, but there is nothing above them? Apologies if this is my model or expected behaviour.

Bird feeder water bath.zip

[DerGenaue]

You are looking at this bug: #14302
It has also been reported in an earlier discussion here; you can scroll up to find the details.

[MartinJSa]

Thanks very much - sorry I missed that

[Halvor0]

Seems like I had a bug with the tree support generation. This tree supports absolutely nothing !

[DerGenaue]

Probably the same bug as in the discussion just above: #14302

[maruhe]

hi, I'm a big fan of old tree support and just hope you keep it alive
in another thread someone told me you may plan to replace the old tree support with this version
i see that there is a lot of potential for the new one, depending of the model etc.. but I still need the old version and don't see a reason to remove a great feature
my suggestion is to rename the old tree-support to "organic" as this term fit's better and call the new version "tree" and keep both

for me it would be much more important to have different layer height on model and support
so best (for me) would be to use adaptive layer height on the model and on main part of support the layer height should be as high as possible

there is nothing to improve on new support-type to make me happy - it's just a different type of need

[MariMakes]

Hey @maruhe,

Keeping both tree supports available is not as easy as it seems.
Do you have an example of a situation or model where it's essential for you to have the choice?
Is there a certain model of shape that is harder to print?

[maruhe]

hi, @MariMakes
we'll see how much is left after some bugfixing - a already sent some samples to ThomasRahm
sadly I didn't got environment running to compile CuraEngine so I have to wait for a next build

as you can see in my screenshots the old one was faster and oftain needed less filament on my model ;-)
also I love seeing the tree repairing itself when the printer or the phisics don't like to follow Cura :-D

(retraction 0,5mm @30/12)
edit: first image was wrong

what I also saw now is retraction - currently I'm playing with TPU and without having such slow retraction-settings I would have seen this difference
on ABS or ASA i don't mind about have 2-3 times more retractions on the voron but I mind about when I use TPU as CW2 seems no to be perfect here
and at the tronxy I mind about in general and may a lot others do also depending on material and printer
as you can see in the screens the xmas-tree needs more time in genaral because of retractions
spending 4:45 hours on retractions is almos 2 times more than it was in Cura 5.2

changing Preferred Branch Angle to 0 helps a bit but I think there is still some more potentlial to mix the features of old and xmas or to add some more settings if you really need to replace the old tree

(it says ABS but i used TPU-reatraction settings here 1,1mm @25/10)

[maruhe]

in any case i think a switch to "disable retraction between trees" would be helpful or differen retraction-settings here

[maruhe]

just because it looks funny, not printable for sure

[maruhe]

sure, but in 5.2 the tree touches the ground over the full size of the model and here it only starts at the front and looks less stable
branch angle is 40 - i print (or even slice) this model since 2 years and never saw such a preview

[maruhe]

did you got my mail? the provider U use oftain marks my mails as spam ~~

[ThomasRahm]

Yes it was in the spam folder. Thanks.

[ThomasRahm]

Ok, i understand why the trees behave here this way, i massively underestimated the scale.
It seemed to me like the branches move much faster the further down they go and while they do accelerate a bit, they don't violate the settings there (these do seem much steeper than 50°, but they are not).
The "small holes" are 3-4 mm, and the branches move through that hole, because there is no other way to the build-plate.

Placing a support blocker above the grate prevents branches of the new tree support from moving though it, so as your Support Placement is Touching Buildplate these branches on the inside would not generate.

While it is not a general solution, reducing the Preferred Branch Angle to 0 causes the trees to stop moving as soon as they can, which results in this (which seems pretty similar to the screenshot of your slice using the old tree supports):

[maruhe]

great setting, saves time, retractions and filament (at least on slow TPU retraction)

[maruhe]

as you can see the new tree misses some support and crashes
model is attached, just ungroup and switch the bottom object to support
SeparateV9_abfkuss_stand.zip

[ThomasRahm]

That there is no trees inside the support mesh is in my opinion correct. If you put a support mesh that is only a shell (like in the project_real.3mf you sent me) there will be branches "inside".

[maruhe]

I really worderd and then I saw I really have a shell-only support-model in that project - it was a mistake ;-)

so here it's a bit more but now the left side doesn't get supported at all

in old versions a support-model like I use here (the solid one) works like changing 'support overhang angle' to 0 and creates full support on the touching surface - what is what I need or even like to have
from my view this is the same but that lets support start in the air

[maruhe]

as you see in the screenshot that one tree in the bottom right corner get's printed as last every layer causing 2 long travels

[MariMakes]

There are a lot of settings you can tune to change the ordering.
Did you try changing any of these settings:

• Layer Start X, Layer Start Y
• Z Seam Shortest
• Combing Modes like Off or All
• Travel Avoid Distance
• Optimize Wall Printing Order.

[maruhe]

Layer Start is 0,0 which would be the top right corner in the screenshot
Z-Seam was 'sharpers corner', shortest makes no difference
Combin Mode is All - I'm afraid Combin Mode gets ignored while Z-Hop is active cura forum
Travel Avoid Distance was 0,6 - I tried 10 without a change
Optimize Wall Printing Order was enabled

changing Layer Start to top left corner changes the direction of tree-order but the same tree is forgotten again

what did a change was changing Z-Seam to random - I seems like the trees (otherwhise) have a general order for the whole print while finding the best order for each single layer would fix this problem without a need of changing other setting
mostly the settings you listed are important to the printed model - in my case I need all of them except layer start to get the model get printed correct

[maruhe]

and I think if the start-position of each circle would vary each layer the chance to "kill a tree" because of the nozzle crashes agains a little curling could be much lower

[maruhe]

general question @MariMakes,
travels are so different with z-hop enabled or disabled - is this a bug or a feature?
I'd likte the travel-moves Cura creates when z-hop is disabled but I also need z-hop 🥴

[HermanGaviriaMarin]

Hello, I was slicing this conical adaptor and I need to support one single surface half way up the model, I set the support overhang angle to 70 so that the other angled features wouldn't be supported. Towards the middle of the model we have additional trees which support nothing. I have attached my profile and the stl on the zip attached to this comment.

XMAS PROFILE.zip

[maruhe]

hi, it's known bug already, no worries :-)
there was a workaround that worked sometimes just I currently don't remember

[parpadoulas]

Cura is not showing any non-networked printer.
Is there any way to manual add them?
Tried uninstalling and reinstalling one time but no luck.
At this step no access to Marketplace so I can't install extra logging extension.
Any suggestions?
I am running Windows 10.
Normal 5.3 release is running without issues.

[MariMakes]

Hey @parpadoulas,

Sorry, it took us a while to get back to you 😞 Are you still stuck?

If you are on Windows, your non-networked printers should live in a few resource folders.
The most important one is this folder: C:\Program Files\UltiMaker Cura 5.3.0-alpha-cura9658\share\cura\resources\definitions
Can you check what's there instead?

[parpadoulas]

Hello @MariMakes,

I did check definitions folder and all the printers were there.
For anyone dealing with the same problem. I managed to solve it by disabling one plugin I had install in the main release.
I am not sure how and why the plugins from the main installation were affecting a different installation in a different folder but it did.
The faulty plugin was "Sidebar GUI" 4.6.0 by fieldOfView.
It was causing the main release to be super laggy, and the issue with the non-available printers on this release.

[marsmanp]

xmas is spending so much more time doing retractions on this model and somehow using more material than 5.3.1

skull_clean.zip

[MariMakes]

Hey @marsmanp,

Thanks for your report 👍
I was a bit surprised to see such a big difference in printing time even though I only see a few more trees (which I believe to be a good thing because you have more parts of your model supported)

But I think I figured out why!
You have Support Wall Line count set to 1.
That causes all your trees to have 2 walls, where most trees have 1 wall.
Because the newer tree support tends to have more branches, older tree support tends to merge branches quicker this resulted in more material and more printing time.

Since the trees behave in a different way, I believe you don't need the double walls anymore. Can you try to print your model with your Support Wall Line Count set to 0?

[marsmanp]

Hi @MariMakes,
I get the same times as you do when comparing at Support Wall Line count at 0. xmas is still slower and uses more material in comparison to 5.3.1 when the Support Wall Line Count is set to 0 (in both). It is all basically within the retractions that it is taking the extra ~30 minutes still too. So changing the setting reduced the overall time of both of them, but xmas is still slower.

[howels]

Have been using the Xmas tree supports so much that it's hard to go back to the older supports. Much easier to remove on complex TPU mounts than traditional supports even after experimenting extensively with the old support settings.
Any news on when we can expect new tree supports to be re-included in new releases? Can't go back.

[MariMakes]

Hey @howels,

We've passed a point of no return in Ultimaker/CuraEngine@9066683 and are working hard on finishing the 5.4 to release in Beta in the coming weeks to roll out the tree support for everyone. 🎉
So... Soon™️ 😉