Icon colour categorization (Meta issue) #3395
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Excellent idea for discussion.
One simple improvement would be unifying the airtransport and
transportation-icon colors.
This would keep blue tones for water features only.
@imagico suggested these changes previously on his blog
Drinking water should then be changed to water-color, like waterfalls and
fountains.
I'm not sure if shower and public_bath should be amenity-brown or
water-color
Wilderness_hut is similar to camping / caravan / alpine_hut, so those
should all stay together.
But I don't know if transport/accomodation is better than leisure for these
As far as the color choices go, most are good, but I wonder how #ac39ac was
picked for shops.
If I was starting from scratch, I would have picked a reddish color similar
to landuse=retail (but more prominent)
…-Joseph Eisenberg
On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 9:31 PM polarbearing ***@***.***> wrote:
in discussion: craft #3126
<#3126>, bike
repair station #3069
<#3069> #3391
<#3391>
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Thanks for the comments. I'd like to keep this discussion for the categories, not tuning a particular colour.
No it is particularly not. Wilderness hut is unstaffed and provides protection from the elements, much like amenity=shelter. An Alpine Hut is serviced and provides lodging and meals. As for features using water, such as drinking_water, shower and public_bath, I'm not convinced to move them to water_colour, as the service character prevails over the medium. In car_wash the cars get wet as well, and it is more a service (which I'd put into shop colour). |
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Sorry about the confusion, I'll stick to discussing the categories now.
1) Shelters/Campgrounds: I see that amenity
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity>=shelter
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dshelter> plus
shelter_type <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shelter_type>=
basic_hut is similar to wilderness_hut, except for the lack of fireplace
(and probably toilets / running water), and these shelters rendered with
amenity-brown, so that is a point in favor of moving wilderness_hut to that
category.
Do camp sites and caravan sites provide serivices? In the northwestern USA,
I believe the majority of campgrounds and RV sites have pretty limited
services (though some have full services), and camping sites in the
backcountry are very basic. The wiki says "There are two types of
campsites: a dedicated area with improvements and various facilities an
impromptu area (as one might decide to stop while backpacking or hiking)".
Should campgrounds be categorized as transport/accomodation?
2) Water amenities: I don't mind if showers and baths are in amenity-brown;
these are amenities that happen to use water, just like a car wash (as you
mentioned).
But I think drinking water is a water feature; access to water is the
"amenity". And there is a plan to add man_made=water_well and water_pump.
These should be the same color ad drinking water or water_tap or natural
springs: (#1224)
3) Transport: I still think transport should be unified with airtransport,
no matter what color is picked.
…On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:56 PM polarbearing ***@***.***> wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I'd like to keep this discussion for the
categories, not tuning a particular colour.
Wilderness_hut is similar to camping / caravan / alpine_hut
No it is particularly not. Wilderness hut
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dwilderness_hut> is
unstaffed and provides protection from the elements, much like
amenity=shelter. An Alpine Hut
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dalpine_hut> is
serviced and provides lodging and meals.
As for features using water, such as drinking_water, shower and
public_bath, I'm not convinced to move them to water_colour, as the service
character prevails over the medium. In car_wash the cars get wet as well,
and it is more a service (which I'd put into shop colour).
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@polarbearing Thanks for complex analysis of colours thing. I think it shows good why we need to recolour gastronomy key - as most of colours are predicted for 1-2 groups, amenity-brown is predicted for 4 groups of tags (!) at the moment. It's surely too much. I hope next step will be #3326 , as tags included in this issue are not memorials, not cultural-like and not a service. |
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To consolidate the discussion here, on issue 3326, @Tomasz-W recommended changing unattended shelters and installations (shelter, bbq, bench, picnic_table, waste_basket, waste_disposal, recycling) to man-made-icon gray, because they are not cultural or public service related. I see that outdoor_seating is under leisure-green. However, it is specifically used for outdoor seating at cafes, bars and restaurants: "A seating area, usually for the consumption of food and drink from neighbouring cafes and restaurants, often belonging to one or more of them, but not necessarily adjacent." wiki. Examples are beer gardens, restaurant terraces, food courts with shared seating. |
It shouldn't. Outdoor seatings are parts of gastronomy points, not a gastronomy points itself. If we keep this logic, we should render trash can in front or a restaurant in garstronomy-orange. |
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On 15. Sep 2018, at 08:01, Tomasz Wójcik ***@***.***> wrote:
It shouldn't. Outdoor seatings are parts of gastronomy points, not a gastronomy points itself. If we keep this logic, we should render trash can in front or a restaurant in garstronomy-orange.
+1
wrt to the proposal to group springs and drinking water fountains by using the same color: I would not do it, while it is one way to see it (all water) there are also different points of view possible: natural features vs. amenities (man made), e.g. drinking water, post box, phone booth, ...
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Started to update the top post. |
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I'd like to discuss the shop definition "Shop (wiki) A place selling retail products or services" which we currently paint purple. There is discussion in #3391 about a self-service amenity, where I think that "selling services" includes:
Thus I conclude that the self-service amenity can be amenity-brown, while the car-repair needs to be shop-purple. Another option is to bring all paid services to the colour where work is being done, which is dark-blue (currently for offices). Consequently, this would bring craft into dark-blue as well. |
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Ok, I did a research of shop=* list (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:shop) Here is the list of shops selling services (or goods + services): tailor, beauty, hairdresser, massage, tattoo, car_repair, copyshop, dry_cleaning, laundry I like leisure-green for |
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That does not take any load from the amenity-brown and would go in the opposite direction. |
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Retail services are quite different than offices. It's sort of the
difference between retail and commercial landuse: lots of people work in
offices, but most of them have no face-to-face interaction with customers,
unlike at a retail business. Barber shops are tiny but have high
foot-traffic.
The craft places would fit better in the same category as offices, since
the location on the map is often just the head office or the place that
goods are made, and not a retail location that good or services are
delivered to the public.
But we'll need to reconsider the dark blue color if it's going to be used
for bigger icons, not just a small dot, especially if Transportation stays
blue (instead of being merged with Airtransport purple)
…On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:55 PM polarbearing ***@***.***> wrote:
That does not take any load from the amenity-brown and would go in the
opposite direction.
So what speaks against office-blue for those workplaces, offering paid
services and crafts?
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We just assigned the gastronomy as a face-to-face interaction business their own colour, so I see no reason why other f2f services need to remain within amenity-brown. |
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Perhaps religious black, power black, man-made grey, and shades of grey should be merged into some sort of a "generic" category. These colors all look the same anyway. |
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The categories should be driven semantically, not just grouped by having had a similar colour at some time. Religious is quite specific in my opinion and not generic. Grey and black look different to me. |
Perhaps the categories of grey and black should be defined? Regardless of intention, black seems to be used as a catch-all. |
Yes indeed. One outcome of the analysis was that there are a few hardcoded colours that should be grouped. |
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water-color should be unified: |
@polarbearing The thing is not to throw out of amenity-brown as much tags as possible, but to make a logical complex system. If we render public services in amenity-brown, it seems to be logical step to extend it also for non-public services (after deloading it by #3360 and #3326). When I see office-blue, I predict some place full of papers/ suits etc., and as I can understand your an argument that |
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On 17. Sep 2018, at 23:09, Jérémy Ragusa ***@***.***> wrote:
water-color should be unified: natural=waterfall uses water-text for both colour and icon whereas amenity=fountain uses marina-text.
also water treatment and toilets, storage tanks that store water, water towers, weirs, factories that bottle water (product=water), boat rentals? Umbrella merchants?
Can you explain why you believe that having something to do with water is a good criterion for a color category (for using the same color), as opposed to how things are currently grouped?
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Fountains and Waterfalls are both blue now, but the shade used is
different. I have trouble imagining fountains and waterfalls in any other
category. I’d call the category “water features”
Do you think either of these should be in a different category?
On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 4:14 PM dieterdreist <notifications@github.com>
wrote:
…
sent from a phone
> On 17. Sep 2018, at 23:09, Jérémy Ragusa ***@***.***>
wrote:
>
> water-color should be unified: natural=waterfall uses water-text for
both colour and icon whereas amenity=fountain uses marina-text.
>
also water treatment and toilets, storage tanks that store water, water
towers, weirs, factories that bottle water (product=water), boat rentals?
Umbrella merchants?
Can you explain why you believe that having something to do with water is
a good criterion for a color category (for using the same color), as
opposed to how things are currently grouped?
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@jragusa - the waterfall is natural, while the fountain is man-made like the marina. @Tomasz-W - I don't get why office-blue reminds you to paper and white-collar workers. Just because it was initially introduced for the office dots? It could easily be renamed in workplace-blue. The general problem with the categorisation here is, that for any two objects A and B in the world you may find a criterion that binds them into one category AB. Then you add object C and find that you could create one category AC and one BC, so you end up with as many categories as objects. Adding more objects, your number of potential categories grows rapidly as (n*n-n)/2. In consequence, it is good that we brainstorm about potential category definition, that's why I opened this thread, but we also need to consolidate them. |
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Health & Safety sounds good to me. @polarbearing, yeah true, but what's your point? I mean, are you saying that's a reason to not render them in the same category or something? |
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We could simply have both categories and use the same color for them. 😄 It will make it easier to adapt if someone wants to. |
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Kocio-pl, that’s a great idea.
Are accommodation and transportation already separate in the code, and just
use the same color? They could both be sub-categories.
Similarly, I’d suggest these subcategories for the icons currently in
Amenity-brown (even if we choose to keep the same color)
1) Financial services:
ATM, Bank, bureau_de_change
(I wouldn’t include Casinos. Maybe they can be leisure or tourism?)
2) Public services:
Fire station, embassy, courthouse, social_facility, town_hall, post_office,
prison, community_centre
(Note that I moved community_centre here from the cultural list)
3) Unattended items: (“street furniture?”)
amenity_shelter, bbq, post_box, recycling, telephone, picnic_table,
waste_disposal, bench, waste_basket, firepit
- should probably not became color as otheramenities
4) Hygiene:
public_bath, shower, toilets, drinking_wate
(Or could also include recycling / waste here)
5) Culture & History:
artwork, memorial, theatre, cinema, museum, arts_centre, gallery, castle,
fort, archeological, plus other historic things
I’m not sure where tourism offices and viewpoints should be included, but
tourism=board and =guidepost are adverting-gray right now.
…On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 7:20 PM kocio-pl ***@***.***> wrote:
We could simply have both categories and use the same color for them. 😄
It will make it easier to adapt if someone wants to.
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It all started with me trying just to make some sane internal categories for a clean code purposes. 😄 You can look at #2824, #2826, #2827 (leisure icon color extended), #2854 and #2855. We can have more categories using the same color, it's even better to have |
There's good brainstorming going on here currently. I don't have a fixed opinion for everything, I also like to listen :-) |
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I agree. I just thought there might of been more behind it that I was missing for some reason. On a related note, id love to see this issue help lead to the code being cleaner. The amenity file could really use some reorganzing and I wish there was some better documentation in the code about what things do. |
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What exactly would you like to understand? |
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Can any tag have its own stylesheet or do they have to be in the amenity-points file for some reason? Like if I wanted to clean up the amenity-points file by creating individual stylesheets for the none amenity tags in it, would that be doable or even have a benefit? |
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I'm not sure about emergency-colour idea. We surely need separate colour for healthcare objects, and propably there will be a generic dots for healthcare=* tags in future - I'm worried that putting eg. |
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I don't think there will be great problems with splitting stylesheets, though I haven't tested it. You just need to include new ones in |
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@kocio-pl, that's what I was thinking. Is there anyone else that would know about the possible performance issues besides @pnorman? because I'd like to do it. It would make editing stylesheets easier to edit, especially for new contributors. Plus, Id like to add documentation at some point and it would help with that also. |
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The problem is that we have no performance framework (see #1287), so no one really knows until production deployment shows if there are such problems or not. There are only some hints when somebody tries development deployment - for example @rrzefox volunteers to do that sometimes, but this is not permanent solution and results depend on the traffic. |
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@giggls made this script: https://github.com/giggls/openstreetmap-carto-de/blob/master/scripts/render_single_tile.py If we could get it work in the docker environment, we could hand select some tiles that exercise a feature, and then time how long the tiles take to render before and after the change. That should a very good indicator of performance. |
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health-color is now #BF0000; (red), and includes dentists, vets, pharmacies, and many features under healthcare=* |
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railway=tram_stop and railway=station use yet another shade of blue: |
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While the top post shows
I would recommend creating a I'm also in favor of using the same color for |
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barrier=gate seems to be 3f3f3f with a ffffff halo, so same as lift_gate and swing_gate Perhaps these and bollard, block, log ( |
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@jeisenbe You forgot |
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I don't feel transport and accommodation should be decoupled. They are quite close to me and I would rather use separate color for craft for example. |
That's a linear features, more like roads or railways, so I wouldn't include it in the list of icon colors, but it's a good idea to keep it in mind while considering icon colors.
I've got 2 new colors in #3641 that we can use, so one of them can be saved for |
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I agree with @kocio-pl I do not see the need to add a specific colour for accommodation but I guess that features with close colours could be simplified with a unique colour. Moreover I don't think that creating a complex colour palette is a good thing because it can disturb people looking at the maps. IMO I prefer creating a more uniform and simple colour scheme because it more easier to people to understand the features on the map. |
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Another addition: |
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Wind generators have been switched from black to man-made-icon |
There are a lot of new icons being added recently, and often the colour has to be decided. Doing that on a case-by-case basis apparently leads to inconsistencies, thus this issue tries to collect definitions and decisions, which I can refine in the top post according to the discussion evolving. I focus on the principal colours and leave out fine tuning of labels etc.
Edits:
2018-09-15 gastro colour, headers current and change requests.
2019-01-11 health colour; minor amenities to man_made
Current situation
amenity-brown: = memorials:, culture:, public-service:
734a08;
financial services (bank, ATM, bureau_de_change, casino)
unattended shelters and installations (
amenity_shelter, bbq)unattended items (post_box, recycling, telephone,
bench, waste_disposal, waste_basket, picnic_table)artwork, memorials
culture (theatre, cinema, museum, community_centre, arts_centre
public_bath, shower, toilets, drinking_water, firepit
public service (fire station, embassy, courthouse, social_facility, town_hall, post_office, prison
tourism=office (don't see the rendering)
viewpoint
historic things (castle, fort, archaeological site etc)
problematic: car_wash, car_service
transportation-icon: = accommodation-icon:
0092da;
Transport related (public transport, vehicle rent, taxi, filling/charging station, toll, elevator, parking)
Touristic accommodation (hotel, motel, hostel, tourism-apartment, guest house, camping/caravan)
serviced shelters (alpine_hut,
wilderness_hut appears more to be an unserviced shelter?
shop-icon:
ac39ac;
Shop (wiki) A place selling retail products or services.
shops, markets
driving_school
hygiene services (hair dresser, nail studio)
health-color:
BF0000;
in #3498
changed from
da0092;Hospital, Pharmacy, doctors, vet, clinic, now also dentist and lots of healthcare=* stuff
gastronomy:
C77400;
merged in #3360
Services where ready-to-eat food and drinks are served
restaurant, fastfood, pub, cafe, bar,
including those servings in a cultural context (nightclub)
religious black
000000 (needs a variable on top of file)
Place of worship, man-made=cross, wayside_cross
power black
"black" (needs a variable on top of file)
generator
water-color:
fountain
waterfall (as water-text)
office:
4863A0;
office=*
man-made-icon: = advertising-grey:
555;
mast, various towers, chimney, city_gate, ad column, lighthouse
bunker
tourism=board,guidepost (don't see the rendering)
wayside_shrine (should that be religious?)
windmill
hunting_stand
unattended amenities (moved from brown in #3586) (amenity_shelter, bench, waste_disposal, waste_basket, picnic_table)
leisure-green:
darken(@park, 60%); i.e. 0C8416
sport/play-related
water_park, beach_resort, fitness, dog_park, picnic_site
massage shop,
sauna
outdoor_seating
bird_hide
airtransport:
8461C4;
helipad, aerodrome
ferry_terminal (why is that on air and not water or transport?)
landform-color:
d08f55;
natural peak, volcano, saddle
undefined - marker-fill is missing
natural_cave_entrance (renders black)
mini_roundabout (renders 666666)
railway level crossing, thin line sampled as 4b4c4a probably from antialiasing with the halo
barrier=gate (also, 404040)
shades of grey
lift_gate, swing_gate 3f3f3f
bollard, block, log 7d7c7c
Open issues
Change non-cultural, non-service, free standing objects from amenity-brown to man-made-grey Change some amenities colour to grey #3326The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: